Black-on-Black Crime You Say? White People Kill Each Other Just as Much as Black People Do



Chenelle A. Jones, Ph.D.

Ohio Dominican University

Over the past weekend, thousands of Americans rallied in over 100 cities across the nation.  People from all walks of life united in a call for justice in response to the recent Zimmerman verdict.

However, as protesters converged on their respective City Halls, Capitol buildings, and designated neighborhoods, another protest was emerging in social media outlets.  This protest was not directed towards injustices within the criminal justice system, nor was it directed towards issues concerning racism or discrimination.  This protest was directed towards the Black community for demanding justice.


Many people (particularly right-winged conservatives) argued that for Black people to demand justice following the murder of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin, was to demonstrate a hypocritical disposition towards criminality and the justice system.  Especially, since Blacks are more likely than any other race, to commit crimes against other Blacks.


This phenomenon is often referred to as “Black-on-Black Crime”.  The resounding message was that Blacks need to address crime within their own community before attempting to address it outside of their community.  This point of view is valid.  Crime within the Black community is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed, but this shouldn’t underscore the fact that Blacks are also disparately treated in the criminal justice system and have the right to advocate systemic change.  The surge of peaceful activism may be the very catalyst that initiates substantive criminal justice reform which subsequently facilitates a reduction in crime and victimization trends among Blacks.


There is no question that crime within the Black community is an issue.  However, there is a need to discuss and deconstruct this notion of “Black-on-Black Crime”.  The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) notes that most crime is intra-racial.  Statistics show that 84% of White victims are killed by Whites and 93% of Black victims are killed by Blacks (BJS, 2011).


So to argue that the intra-racial phenomenon of crime victimization is unique to the Black community is to demonstrate an inaccurate assessment of historical and contemporary crime and victimization trends.  Furthermore, to acknowledge the existence of “Black-on-Black” crime without equally acknowledging the existence of “White-on-White” crime is to perpetuate a myth of inherent black criminality, and Blacks are not inherently criminal.


A majority of crimes against Blacks are committed by other Blacks and that same argument can be made for Whites.  Crime is often associated with proximity.  Blacks are more likely to live near other Blacks therefore the opportunity to offend Blacks is greater.  Whites are more likely to live near other Whites therefore the opportunity to offend Whites is greater.  This is evidenced in intra-racial crime trends and from this perspective, Black-on-Black crime is just as real (or unreal) as White-on-White crime.


Another issue with the “Black-on-Black Crime” argument is that it perpetuates the notion that crime trends in the black community have not improved, nor have Blacks worked to facilitate its improvement.  Although there is always room for improvement when it comes to crime trends, it must be noted that homicide rates for Blacks have declined dramatically. The offending rate for Blacks was 51 per 100,000 in 1991 and that rate has since dropped to 24 per 100,000 (BJS, 2011).


There is no doubt that the current homicide rate for Blacks is still high but it must be acknowledged that the rate has declined.  So, to suggest that the Black community should focus on crime issues within their community and not consider broader, macro-level issues that may contribute to crime and victimization trends within the community, is to demonstrate a clear misunderstanding of how historically racial and socio-economic trends converge to impact crime rates.  Furthermore, to suggest that Blacks should focus on issues of crime within their community before addressing crime within a broader context, is to blatantly overlook the work that has already been done, and the work that continues to be done to address crime rates.


The final issue with the “Black-on-Black Crime” argument involves the disparate treatment of Black and White offenders in the criminal justice system.  Whites represent a majority of the American population and are responsible for 54% of murders involving an intimate partner, 59% of murders involving a family member, 55% of murders involving infants, 56% of murders involving elders, 54% of sex related murders, 53% of gang related murders, 70% of workplace related murders, 55% of arson related murders, 80% of poison related murders, and 53% of murders involving multiple victims (BJS, 2011).  Blacks comprise 13% of the population and are responsible for 59% of felony murders, 65% of drug murders, 50% of murders involving an argument, 56% of gun homicides, and 54% of murders with multiple offenders (BJS, 2011).

Although Whites commit more types of homicides in comparison to Blacks, Blacks are more likely to be arrested and convicted.  Whites are just as likely as Blacks to commit crimes against people of their own race, but Blacks often receive longer sentences and are more likely to be incarcerated or sentenced to death when they commit crimes against people of their own race.  It is a double-standard that Whites who commit crimes are more likely to be acquitted, and Blacks who commit crimes and are more likely to be convicted.  This historical issue of racially disparate treatment in the criminal justice system is another reason why people rally for justice.  Using the “Black-on-Black Crime” argument only serves as a means to distract people from macro-level issues of injustice.

Crime within the Black community is indisputably an issue, however the “Black-on-Black Crime” argument should not be used as a means to distract the Black community from demanding justice within the criminal justice system.  Blacks can simultaneously work towards improving their own crime trends and demand justice.  So, let the protesters continue in their pursuits.  If they want to march, let them march, if they want to sit-in, let them sit-in, if they want to boycott, let them boycott because when all is said and done, the protestors will be the vessels that will move this nation.


Sources:  Bureau of Justice Statistics (2011).  Homicide Trends in the United States, 1980-2008.  U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs.

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  3. Focus on where the most homicides are happening. There were a total of 12000 deaths. Over 9000 are committed by black on black. that is 75% of all homicides. Less than 5% are committed by whites-on-whites. Hispanic on Hispanic are the remaining which is 20%. If 15% of the nation is black and 80 percent of the deaths are within the black community, that is where we have a very serious problem. The perception that this death rate is caused by racism is bogus. It can only be fixed by self-determination with in the black community. No amount of money from the US government is going to fix that problem. The money is intended to get votes, not fix the problem. Democrats keep saying they are working to fix the problem but these problems are located in major cities run by democrat majors. If you are black and you fall for the lies that only republicans are racist; you are truly fooling yourself. Charter schools are clearly the best way to help black children get a leg up yet it is the democrat who wants to kill the system. Yet you do not call that racism. It isn’t. The democrats are trying to protect the votes and the money they get from unions. 96% of all union contributions to political parties go to democrats. If you want to point a finger, just point to a democrat on the ballet when you vote, they are lock step with each other. Bottom line is stop supporting politicians thinking they are going to fix your problem. Only you can fix your problem. Start with charter schools for children and “charter schools for adults” that help them focus gaining a skill that will help them find work. Let businesses pay for the schools so they can get a tax break. If you go to school you pick up your food stamps there. You get paid for actively trying to improve yourself. No school, no help. Unemployment checks need to have requirement attached, school to gain skill while also applying for work at the same time. Get employers to fund that by letting them have a tax break. There is so much more we can do along these lines to get our less fortunate off the downward spiral of destruction. Save the kids and save the parents.

    • SO sorry, I made a spelling error when referencing addressing mayors in major cities. Scratch majors and make it mayors. Again sorry.

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  5. Didn’t blacks make up the term black on black crime anyways? I don’t understand what this article is trying to prove. Everyone commits crime, I hate when people enjoy sitting around pointing fingers. Who cares, if you are going to write maybe consider on writing on things that can make the world a brighter place and not continue to stir the hate that already exists! Pulling race cards is pure ignorance. I’m speaking from all areas!

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  7. The Facts show that black people as a % of population commits many times more crimes then white people, And all so that all races do commit crime to each other and there own race included But again even here Black people commit more crime on other Black people as a % then any other group of people. This is information you can look up it’s public domain. Now I’m sure some one will yell racist. But facts don’t lie. You can check your self. It’s sad but true this is why other races don’t want to live around black people. It’s expected who wants to be around any thing that has a high rate of hurting or stealing from them or there family’s?

  8. This entire website is retarded. News for blacks? Retarded.

  9. Racism is core issue here. On both sides. I see a lot of racist comments towards blacks and a lot towards whites here. Think about what ur actually saying before u say it. If ur saying ” ur race is this and ur race does this” u r pointing the finger which is what children do. Bottomline is grow up. Take responsiblity for ur actions. Quit blaming the next race or the next religion for the problems in your life. This is directed towards blacks, whites, Asians, Indians, whoever! Stop the hate

  10. You can tell the author tries to hard to sound intelligent. Her statistics are misleading and unfounded.Kill white santa and replace him with a black one is what she really wants to say. Maybe she can repair Detroit, where blacks kill one another and their crimes go unpunished. Silly girl, and she has a PhD, wtf?

  11. Blacks kill each other 14 more times than whites and if your ignorant enough to believe that 50% or more of violent crime isnt coming from the black ghettos, than your just lying to yourself and that makes you part of the problem your communities seem to not give a gosh it about they’re own problems aka black on black crime instead they wait to whine about some thug getting killed for thinking he was tough by a different race. Another thing why don’t y’all complain about all the lazy ass blacks sittin on welfare because it’s free even though the rest of us have to pay for them to sit around **** out more kids that they’re not going to take care of and spend they’re welfare checks on crack and 40 ounces. But let’s keep blaming everybody else and saying that you don’t have a problem with black on black crime.

  12. Keep calling us names (white devil, cracker, whiteboy/girl, casper) because it’s O.K.!!! Consider the source of this thread; a ****** who received FREE education from ****** now wants to add to a nightmare that started LONG BEFORE ANY OF US were here in ‘AMERICA’ not the black spelling of “Amerikka”. Your time came and went AFRICAN AMERIKKANS…… we give you THAT and your still ****ed. Sorry! We can’t wash the rest of your body to look like the bottom of your feet! You keep race baiting and we’ll keep you right where you have always been; BELOW US…… **** THE BLACK PEOPLE THAT DON’T LIKE THE WHITE PEOPLE! **** you!

    • Ize hayts All whitpeoples… days bad fer us po blCk peoples. Dey meen an nSty… i hTesw ALL white peoples… MLK wood b prowd of us peoples!



  14. One thing most are forgetting is,
    There’s stats are based on arrests
    Not Conviction.
    African Americans (1 out of 3) will be harassed by the justice system even if they are NOT CRIMINALS.
    Jim Crow Etiquettes & Fear Driven Stereotypes keeps handcuffs on African Americans.
    High crime statistics are NOT based on AA being criminals
    Its Based On
    This country choosing to criminalizing us so they can cage us & eliminate us from basic American Rights (VOTING), Freedom, Liberties (EXPIRED AFFIRMATIVE ACTON LAW) & Human Respect (NOT ANIMALS).


    • That’s the biggest load of bull **** ever they keep getting handcuffed because they’re criminals. Maybe 10% are wrongfully accused but unlike you ignorant dumb ****s think it’s not just blacks who are wrongfully accused and convicted it happens to every race but of course you all think everything is about bringing the black people down, the ghetto ones do that enough for your race nobody else has to, and yet y’all still don’t do anything to fix that problem.

  15. “Statistics show that 84% of White victims are killed by Whites and 93% of Black victims are killed by Blacks”

    Those are some very interesting statistics. So 93% of blacks killed are killed by other blacks. Hummm I wonder who is killing the last 7%? Are hispanics the culprits. They are more likely to live close to or among black people then any other group. And the author of the article did point out that proximity is a big factor. Or, do you think it could be whites killing that 7% of black victims of murder who are killed by non blacks?

    Speaking of whites, I can’t help but notice that of the victims, only 84% of whites killed are actually killed by other whites. I wonder, who is killing the other 16%? That’s over twice the rate of whites killed by other races than blacks killed by other races. I wonder who is killing all the whites. Could it be the hispanics? Maybe that explains the white silence on the issue. Maybe whites don’t mind being killed by hispanics. I know it couldn’t be blacks that are killing all the whites. If it was blacks, the whites would really be kicking up a fuss, wouldn’t they? I mean don’t the whites own the media and the government and everything? Hummm it’s a mystery, it truly is.

    • Sherlock Holmes addendum

      To recap, below are the original statistics posted by the author from which I derived my conclusions.

      “Statistics show that 84% of White victims are killed by Whites and 93% of Black victims are killed by Blacks”

      I did a little additional research on the crime stats the author provided regarding the crime of murder. It seems the reason no stats were provided regarding hispanic crime is because stats are not kept for hispanic crime.

      When it comes to crime, hispanics are lumped with whites. How can they get away with doing this, with covering up the real nature of the situation?

      So back to my original observation, based on the stats provided by the author we can derive the following: 16% of whites are killed by other races while 7% of blacks are killed by other races.

      What that means is that whites killed by hispanics are counted in the white on white murder statistic i.e. the 84% of white murder committed by other whites is actually quite confusing.

      The fact is, we don’t really know what percentage of whites kill each other since that number is not recorded. It could be that only 68% of white murders are committed by other whites.

      I mean I can’t believe that hispanics kill that many fewer whites then blacks do. And black murder of whites accounts for 16% of the murders. Sure a few whites are probably killed by asians. But asians are notorious for obeying the law. They commit fewer crimes then anyone else by far.

      Without hard numbers, it’s beginning to look like as many as 32% of whites who are murdered, are in fact killed by non whites. If hispanics are significantly more violent against whites then blacks are, the number could be much higher. There is just no way to tell.

      Me thinks somebody in D.C. doesn’t want us to know, at least doesn’t want white people to know what is really going on.

      I wish someone would read my assessment and tell me what they think. This is starting to look like it’s pretty much open season on whites.

      You know this does explain one thing though. Have you been reading the news stories about all the ammunition white people have been buying lately. I thought it was being purchased by white para military groups because we elected a black man as President.

      I guess that’s not the case. Even though they aren’t being told the truth by our government, whites must sense they are under attack, word of mouth maybe. Hell, they’re just loading up to protect themselves.

  16. It seems to me that there are very few people who have the courage to address the system of exploitation that the working class, employed or unemployed are living under. What we should all be asking ourselves is, can the capitalist system provide full employment at a good living wage? I don’t think that it can.
    The Bill of Rights as it stands is *nearly* perfect. I would add one more thing to it and that is every single person in this nation has the right to have a good job at a living wage. If this system called capitalism cannot allow for that then it must be overthrown.
    If you are a young person and happen to be reading this I would encourage you to go to your local library and pick up a copy of the Communist Manifesto. If the library is t open or accessible go to the Marxist Internet Archive and read it there. Admittedly, the book may be difficult to understand at first simply because there will be words and phrases that your not accustomed to. The two most important words you will ever need to know are ‘bourgeoisie and ‘proletariat. Once you begin to see yourself from a class perspective it opens up a whole new world. You have nothing to lose but your chains.

    • Young person, do not waste your time reading Karl Marx or the Communist Manifesto. It’s been tried. It doesn’t work. It has never worked and it will never work because it can never work. Any nation that adopts it forces their population, except for a very few at the top, into poverty and want. And once adopted, there is almost no way out, short of violent revolution.

      Full employment is not possible under any system. But the best chance for a decent job is through free enterprise or capitalism. It may not be a perfect system and it may have shortcomings. But compared to everything else, it is a godsend. Like it or not, the best and fairest way to allocate resources, is the free market.

      The market, through the rise and fall of prices, tells us when we are over consuming or under consuming and when its time to switch from using one type of good to another.

      The only real problem with the free market is that its hard for it to price non priced resources. For instance, what is the value of a clear sky at night, free of pollution so you can enjoy the stars? Don’t tell me something like that doesn’t have a value because in my soul I know that it does. But the free market doesn’t know how to put a value on something like that. So some bureaucrat assigns a cost to polluters and it may or may not be accurate. Usually what happens is the polluter gets a politican elected who will pass laws that protect the ability of the polluter to keep polluting. But thats not really a failure of the free market. That’s a failure of the political system.

      The fact is, no person, no matter how smart and informed is capable of allocating resources for all of us. And that is what communisum tries, and fails miserably, to do. But on the other hand, millions of us, acting independently, responding to the market through free prices can and do make rationale decisions that lead to the best and most efficient use of scarce resources.

      Sometimes, especially when I’m tired or over worked, and angry about the latest banking scandal, I try to think up some way that a planned economy or central planning would work. But the simple fact is, that kind of system will and can never work. The free market is the best economic system going. It wasn’t invented by any particurlar group but evolved in all places over time. Its just the natural outcome of any civilization the develops a variety of goods and services. Free markets just get better as economies develop complexity.

      And a side benefit is, if its allowed to function, the free market actually supports and reinforces the values of individual freedom.

      Young person, I have a better idea for you then reading the Communist Manifesto. If you want to be involved in the process, take up issues that protect the price function and resource allocation function of free markets. Protest price fixing and market manipulations by the rich the powerful and the politically connected.

      Figure out ways that market forces can be brought to bear in order to value and allocate resources that we know are important for us as human beings, but are being wasted because we haven’t been able, or allowed to let the free market make allocation and use decisions for the use of those resources.

      Protect the free market and the free market will protect you. Its as simple as that.

  17. Great rebuttal to those trying to discredit the fight for justice.
    A number of folks commenting here clearly are too mired in self-hatred to grasp the significance of the article. Now if anything, that’s what white folks count on — ugly name calling and uncivil discourse among black people. Talk about black on black crime!
    Lots of stupidity in these comments, and that’s something that does not discriminate.

  18. WHO REALLY CARES?! The fact is that you as a black person knows factually that black people are “more” prone to having “Crabs-in-a-bucket” syndrome. I respect your thoughts and views but facts are facts. Im not saying dont stand up for whats right. But Goddame.. fix whats in the mirror before you complain about the smudge on the mirror. The view after/if you clean it off is still messed up. Don’t tell us what the people next door are doing when the people inside our door is tearing up the house we live in. I am african american and what i see in us is tragic to a point. We cant co-own businesses. We cant work for each other cause we always think we can do it the same or better on our own. Its a fact. You (if you choose to) can deny or take a closed eye to this fact for your own personal gain. For example being noted as prolific or well versed in the area of racial statistics however, as blacks we need to concentrate more on fixing the scratches and scrapes on our shoes before we complain about the dust blowing or the puddles that we happen to step in along the way.
    I use these analogies to make a point and put in everyday perspective the relationship between our race and others. It will never be agreed by me that we destroy and uproar about one incident that has minimal effect on how we treat each other. I dont know the actual numbers on same race crimes but i do know the day-to-day actions of my race. And “that’s” what needs to be fixed before we go burning and looting and rioting “our own business” by the way. I mean are we that dumb to get mad and break our own stuff? Our own resources? Half the people doing these acts are in house shoes and gang attire. That seems to me to be a group of bored people that found a new way to have a party.. A temporary cause to back just to try and make an attempt at finally being a part of something that may make history or even just something they can be 75 and act as if they were a prominent member of society because of their minimal participation. “I was there” -Corlione

  19. Awesome report!

    I found out a long time ago, just put it out there and don’t worry about the ignant responses that will follow.

    The point is put the facts out there and know that it is up to others how they receive it.

    Thank you!

  20. @reg: “Black on black crime is black Americas #1 enemy today,and should have our uttmost attent.”

    Go buy the book TODAY entitled THE COLOR OF CRIME by Katheryn Russell-Brown [a Black author], and get the BLACK/DARK TRUTH about, who the REAL #1 KILLERS ARE ON THIS PLANET!!! That ‘light’ [white] is a killa!!!


  21. This article is total BS and is trying, really hard, to take away the fact that black on black crime is an absolute nightmare. And to try and act like is isn’t does a horrible injustice to the black community in an attempt to sweep it under the rug…what cowardice! What shame! And the black communities, particularly those in which hundreds of blacks have been killed, should be offended by this outrageous liberal bullcrap. Black on black crime is black Americas #1 enemy today,and should have our uttmost attent.

  22. In closing I want to add regarding President Barak Obama, it is useless to expect anything from him. He is only a titular head a representative of the amerikkkan government. He upon taking office swore to uphold white Supremacy against all enemies foreign and domestic. He is under oath to the enemies of your rise Afro-Descendant people. He, the amerikkkan government, is at war with the chosen people of God who made his appearance here in Amerikkka July 4th 1930 , in the divine person of a man named Master W.D. Fard Muhammad (TWAPIDF) (Eze 34:11-16,)who raised in your midst a divine leader and guide, Moses in the person of the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad (PBUHF) (Gen. 3: 3-9)( Eze.34:23-24; 34:31). President Barak Obama is NOT the President of the Afro-Descendant Nation (Black people), he is the President of Egypt and Pharaoh the unjust and evil American government. He executes the will of an evil and unjust people.

  23. My people,the time for meaningless debate is pass. It is time for us to unite around one common cause. You and I know the score here in amerikka, so let us not allow this Caucasian devils media to manipulate
    our position and diffuse our energy. This is why meaningless rhetoric was introduced into the Trayvon Martin injustice issue.They are well aware that we are not just talking about Trayvon, but injustice that is perpetuated on a entire nation of people,just by the “criminal injustice system” but the entire American Government. A Government that perpetuated slavery on us for 310 years(1555-1865) and have since perpetuated quasi- legal slavery upon us now for 148 years (1865-2013).The 13th amendment to the US Constitution made slavery so-called legal as a punishment for any white perceived crime. ie. Looking out the same window as a white person, looking a white person in the eyes, refusing to get off the sidewalk quickly for whites, not saying yes sir or yes ma’am, etc. These types of perceived crimes usually resulted in blackepeople getting locked into ten, fifteen and twenty years of free hard labor. on some devils farm, stone quarry or tree cutting squard. The injustice within the system or so well entrenched and systemic that it would be impossible to remove. It is malignant,and has metastasized throughout the entire system. It premeates.labor, law, education,medicine, religion, society and love. Black on Black crime is only an extention of white on black crime perpetuated on black people by this US government for the past 458 years.(1555-2013). Well today, we, so-called African Americans, today’s UN (United Nations) recognized Afro Descendant people have a Government of our own. We have a President , legislative body and a judicial branch anxious to give you justice. They need your support,that same support you are giving to the enemies of your freedom, justice, equality and independence. If you desire freedom, justice and equality go to and sign the Petition for Reparation being spearheaded by the Honorable Silis Muhammad and the Lost-Found Afro-Descendant Nation. It’s time the world heard our collective voice,a voice that has for over four centuries been sublimated by the voice of the amerikkkan government.




    • Notice that the author, for the most part, cites percentages. Statistical percentages are only useful when the groups being compared are of equal size. Therefor, they are garbage numbers in this case. Not only are they garbage, undoubtedly, the author chose the use of percentages to falsely support her point of view. Only in one instance did she use per-capita stats, for which she omitted the same stats for Whites. She cites a Black homicide rate of 24 in 100,000, but fails to mention that the per capita rate for Whites is less than 7 in 100,000 (she also fails to mention that Hispanics are included in the stats for Whites). This is nothing more than misdirection by statistics and omissions. Per capita crime rates and raw figures would not paint such an “even” picture, which is exactly why the author went to lengths to avoid those numbers.

  25. Reginald Trotter

    Very powerful, I posted the statistics on my facebook page last week White on White crime, because these Right Winger Republican, try there best to get Us off the real issue, injustice and Racism.

  26. Did everyone miss the point of this article? It’s merely saying that the term black on black crime is a phrase designed by whites to divert our attention from the injustices in the media and judicial systems. When in fact crime doesn’t care who commits it or whom it’s committed against. The reasons crimes are committed are as varied as the crimes themselves. But coining the phrase “Black on Black” crime suggests that Blacks should not be concerned about crimes committed against them by whites. Three hundred years of crimes…enough is enough. Given equal access to education and employment, who knows what the statistics would be. I’d like to know. Maybe Trevon would have found the cure for cancer or an alternative to fossil fuels….given the opportunity.

    • To quote you:

      When in fact crime doesn’t care who commits it or whom it’s committed against.

      Okay why don’t you tell the victim of a crime that. Also the way you word it, you make it sound like crime just happens. It doesn’t just happen. Someone commits an offense against someone else, either their property or their person or often both. Crime doesn’t just happen.

      It is done by someone to someone. It’s a personal thing. Have you ever been the victim of a crime? When it happens to you, believe me, you will realize that it didn’t just happen.

      Where does the article suggest or infer that whites are trying to tell blacks that they shouldn’t be concerned about crime committed against them by whites?

      If anything the reverse is true. Did you read the stats the author posted? Only 7% of blacks who are murdered are murdered by non blacks. We don’t know how many of that 7% were murdered by whites and how many were murdered by hispanics since when it comes to crime, the Govt. labels all hispanics as white.

      Now look at what percentage of whites are murdered by non whites. The number is 16%. that is more then twice the percentage of whites who are killed by blacks than blacks who are killed by whites.

      You have got it backward. The population at risk here for being murdered are white people. You’ve got the stats right in front of you and still you come up with some bogus nonsense conclusions.

      I apologize for being rude but your racism is so pervasive that you just grab stuff out of thin air and point the finger at people you don’t know, who have done nothing to you and you hate on them simply because they are white. Enough!

  27. Great story! Thanks for highlighting the facts.

  28. Trying to make these comparisons is pointless when on a daily bases in your local urban community, young black men are the victims and offenders of violent crimes. Instead of trying this tat for tat senseless debate, what are WE as a black community are going to do to reverse this horrific epidemic that’s been plaguing our communities for decades.

    • They are not going to stop the killings because the drugs are already in their system, and these drugs that they are taking are not the same as the drugs were in the 1970’s. They have terrible side affects. These drugs that are designed for them now make them kill themselves or other people. You see, these people are without jobs, hope and no future for them to look to, and some of them have come out of jail, and it’s no help for them, and they take these drugs that America has designed for people that they hate, and the black people distributed these drugs through out their communities, and they poison their friends and their love ones helping America to carry out their plans for them. And they are too sick in the head to realize that they are destroying themselves and they don’t want any kind of help at all from anyone because these drugs has affected their minds to the point that they cannot help themselves, and they cannot think, and all they want to do is kill someone. These drugs give them a chemical change in the brain. This drug can also give them a chemical smell to kill people or to kill them own self. A certain smell in the air can make them kill people. This is how these drugs were designed. But people don’t know this! They have already done a study on these types of drugs, and they know what these drugs can do to the human brain. You keep on hearing people saying, stop the killing; please stop the killing! Well that’s impossible when the drugs are already in you to kill. And those drugs have terrible side affects to them when people take that mess. I don’t know if they can ever be cured from it. Only an American scientist could tell you that. I don’t know that people… They are killing each other like dogs due to the American drugs that are out in their communities… And somebody is making a lot of money off of these people with their problems; Thanks to America! They have done a good job on Black people with their drugs, and Black people love to get high on anything, so America gives them their rope… It’s really sad!

      • Dear Arthur, you are so silly, dont you know that other races have drugs in their community too, Drugs has no neighborhood. Some of the biggest mixers of drugs come in the white neighborhoods, case in point CRACK, crystal-meth, bath-salts, they are going crazy with this stuff, and so much more are used… no way you can even compare this so….

  29. Michael Codispoti

    All I know is I am afraid and grab my wallet and fear I am going to be robbed every time I walk into a bank and see white men wearing suits

  30. black people will never be satisfied. all of the post recognized that there was a problem, yet there’s bickering going on.
    I thought this article was informative. Forget about blk on blk crime for a minute, and address this black on black hating on this blog. No one even mentioned the fact that this beautiful black DOCTOR, deserves respect for even discussing this subject, because most cornball “intellects” as some thug put it, wont even touch this subject. Big ups to Dr. Jones. keep up the good work.

    • “Forget about blk on blk crime for a minute..”

      Your credibility went straight to zero after making that statement….

  31. I would challenge everyone reading this article to do the following. Check the crime statistics of your local area and then make a decision on how you view homicides. Going directly off of national statistics will blur your vision and it also marginalizes everyone….not just black folks.

    I agree with this article and it’s only a step forward to actually see how the media tells people what to think and not how to think.

    Again, Chicago is the go to city when it’s time to start talking about homicides but check this out. Over the past 20 years, homicides in Chicago have decreased by over 53%. In other cities, the rates have decreased even more than that.

    So do your own research and don’t mask a national average and report a skewed number that misrepresents each city in the nation.

  32. White people LOVE to stir up mess. You have Bill O’Riley and Rush telling all kinds of lies about black people and Fox News is 24/7 anti black and headquarters for the KKK. Truth is when you hear about whites killing it is usually of “THE MASS MURDER” type or their own family.

  33. This article is meaningless and filled with stats that can never be proven —black folk are well aware of crimes being committed by whites and others ,she need not remind us—-what does she mean by “JUST AS MUCH”—is she saying it’s ok to commit crimes because others commit them “JUST AS MUCH?”—or is she saying “We commit a lot of crimes” sounds ass backwards to me— everybody gets to vent and sound like a learned intellect—including me—-that’s about all that’s gonna happen—- people really don’t care—- most folk don’t know the reality of their misguided anger—they’re like time bombs waiting to explode—-with no real plan after the explosion—–Calm down!!! PEACE!

    • I think you missed the point of the article. The point is whites kill whites just as much as blks kill blks. But the media and the right wing people of the world only put out stats on blk on blk crime when in fact its just about equal. it’s always called blk on blk crime. It’s never called white on white crime.

      • Actually YOU missed the point of the the story. The author’s point is to dupe you and the rest of the unaware into believing whites commit as many crimes as blacks. She is comparing the rates at which whites commit certain “types” of crime versus the actual number of crimes committed by blacks. The sheer number of violent crimes committed by blacks are far ahead of the actual number of violent crimes committed by whites. The black community should be appalled that blacks commit 59% of all murders even though they represent only 13% of the country. Scary numbers. And be careful of who the government calls “white”. Many of the governmental crime reports lump Hispanics into the “white” category. Take that into consideration and it completely deflates Ms.Jones’ assumptions of equal crime by race.

        I will concede there is bias in the justice system, but I believe she fails to mention that most blacks dealt harsher sentences are most often repeat offenders of some type and the justice system does take that into consideration when handing out sentences. Jones paints a broad stroke and leaves out valid facts so she can make her point. Apparently, it works; especially on people like you who can’t see the forest through the trees and are ready to drink the Koolaid….

        • Excuse me Chris, Crime is Crime no matter what type it is. My take is the Media focuses on any and all crimes committed by blacks. If you remove the camera’s from the inner city and take them to the suburbs, you will be made to believe that whites are starting to commit more crimes, when in actuality its been there all long. There have been to many Lawyers, including GZ lawyer stating that Blacks are treated unfairly by the justice system.

          • Ok. I guess. Not really sure what point you are making. Are you saying the statistics the FBI provide are less relevant than the media?

            Doubtful. But everyone has the own “take”.

      • I just read Ms. Jones’ source for her percentages and as expected she cherry picked the good stuff and somehow managed to leave out the true story. FBI crimes labs include hispanics in the white category. This completely skews the stats but helps Ms. Jones make a blurred point. Hispanics in the west, southwest and southeast are killing at rate similar to blacks. Problem is they are lumped in as white in this BJS report. As matter of fact, Ms. Jones failed to mention blacks committing homicide at a rate of 8 times higher than that of whites (including hispanics). The readers should be ripping Ms. Jones a new ass for not providing the whole truth and only including the info that supports her story point.

        Stop being lazy. Read the author’s source and where that info came from. Make you own decision after you take to time to read all the way back to FBI files. Anyone can pick and choose facts to make their point, but one has to read all the facts to make a decision. Kind of like the Martin / Zimmerman case.

        Trends by race:
        Blacks were disproportionately represented among homicide
        victims and offenders:
        * In 2008, the offending rate for blacks (24.7 offenders per
        100,000) was 7 times higher than the rate for whites (3.4 offenders per 100,000)(figure 18).

        [BJS Source – The offending rate for blacks (34.4 per 100,000) was almost 8 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000) (table 1)].

        • Chris Gibbs…are we talking about skin color or race. If so, then there is no white race. Black and brown you can easily identify, however the rest is hard to tell. Sometimes you have to do a double take. Oh and lets not forget the half breeds. How are those counted, as blacks for their skin color or white for who their parents are? Indians and some Dominicans look black so I guess that number will jump up as well. The. We group all blacks together. How many of those blacks are Africans? And how many murders do Africans commit? Sometimes the numbers of white are not reported, so you will never know the true numbers.

          So I guess we shouldn’t protect when we’re wronged because whites commit less crime. What’s the point of Martin Luther King when blacks commit more crime? Why should we do anything if Blacks are worse?

          We are doomed!

          • I think you are off point but I agree with some of your comment because it supports my post. Sort of, anyways. My point is the author is twisting the comparisons to make her point, which isn’t altogether the whole story.

            The rest of your comment is kinda vague so not sure where you are going with it. The report she uses for her source lumps everyone into white and black with a very small group as other. When you complain about the white slave masters of the old south, do you picture a mexican in that group? Her source does so I am saying her argument loses credibility based on that argument.

          • I am not saying blacks are worse. I am discounting her assessment based on faulty comparisons. Also, I am making the point that anyone can cherry-pick the parts of a report to make their article sound valid. She left out some very important facts which would produce a much truer picture of crime stats.

          • Augustus Pendergast

            “What’s the point of Martin Luther King when blacks commit more crime? Why should we do anything if Blacks are worse?
            We are doomed!”

            Filmmaker I hope you won’t be upset with me for answering your question. And I understand that the quote I selected to respond to was written with no small bit of irony in mind. But I choose to read it as an appeal for understanding, for answers, even if that isn’t entirely the case.

            So you did ask what to do. First let me tell you what I notice on black blogs and in black media: It’s always about being victims and it’s always the whites who are at fault. It’s a mindset that is pervasive throughout black civil society both here and in the wider world, as near as I can tell anyway.

            Unfortunately, it’s a mindset in America that is promoted by law, as well as government funding policies. Furthermore it is reinforced by the major media outlets almost as a matter of faith at this point.

            One of the reasons your sense of victimhood is so powerful is because you learned it while sitting at your Mother’s knee. And that kind of conditioning is profoundly paralyzing such that it is almost impossible to repudiate. It’s almost impossible, but not, thank God, entirely impossible.

            I’m not going to make the arguments to you that support what I am saying. No doubt you’ve already heard most of them. Anyway you wouldn’t believe me even if I did try to make the case.

            The good news: The truth is available to you. And, you can get it from sources that you are more likely to trust.

            Check out the people on this list: Derrick Williams, Michael Steele, Fredrick Douglas, La Shawn Barber, Larry Elder, Shelby Steele.

            Those are a few black conservatives. There are thousands more and even more see the light every day. Those on this list, with the exception of Fredrick Douglass, say pretty much the same things, but in different ways.

            They speak the truth about how to realize your dreams and how to get the most out of your own talent, potential and will to succeed in this great land, where freedom and opportunity abound. Their message is one of hope and empowerment, and it works.

            No doubt you’ve heard of these people and probably think of them as Uncle Tom’s. Well maybe not La Shawn Barber since she is a woman. And maybe not Fredrick Douglass since most liberals think he is in your camp. He isn’t and he never was. Read him, you’ll see what I mean.

            I thought twice about suggesting Larry Elder as a source to you. He is a little too intense and angry for a lot of people. I think his frustration is based on the fact that the truth he reveals is so obvious, and he can’t accept that his own people reject it out of hand. But you can handle it Filmmaker. I can tell that about you. Besides, Mr. Elder reserves most of his invective for white liberals, upon who’s heads he piles an extra helping of scorn. But then again, who doesn’t? Lol.

            This is a list of black men and one woman who absolutely and unequivocally reject almost everything you hold to be true and sacred about reality, especially as it relates to the culpability you believe white America bears for the current state of black America.

            In other words you aren’t going to find any fans of Jermiah Wright and James Cone among this group. Well, in fairness, Fredrick Douglas couldn’t technically be a fan, since he passed away over 100 years ago.

            But I’ve read his autobiographies and enough of his articles to speak with authority on his behalf regarding Black Liberation Theology. Trust me, Mr. Douglass would have given the whole goofy mess two thumbs down.

            Before I go, I need to say a word or two about Michael Steele. When he became chairman of the RNC, the racists in the party; led by his republican royal highness Sir. Rush Limbaugh, really came out of the woodwork. Personally it bothers me that republicans are right on the principles but so many are wrong in the practice of those principles.

            Nowhere is it written that conservatives have to be racists. It just looks that way lately because of how republicans played the race card back in the day. Nixon called it the southern strategy. The idea was to divide black and white in the south in order to keep the party in power.

            I guess I can see the reasoning. I mean, you can’t do good if you can’t get elected. While I understand the strategy, please note, I didn’t say I agreed with it because I don’t. A lot of conservatives don’t agree with it.

            Anyway Steele, had he been a lesser man, would have publicly washed his hands of the whole lot of them. But he didn’t, he nursed the party along and managed to get Pelosi fired by taking back the House of Representatives, and that at a time when the honeymoon with President Obama was still going strong. It really is about the principles and nobody understands that better then Michael Steele.

            So anyway, if you check out the people I listed. I mean really read them and try to get into their heads, you will begin to see what is possible for all of us, if we can get the talented 13%, that’s you, off the whine wagon and back into the game. The future could be very bright for all of us.

            Or, we can keep on with the bickering, blacks getting ever more alienated and angry while whites get ever more defensive and angry.

            Just keep in mind, there is always at least two sides to a story. Which btw, reminds me; regarding the sacrifice of the 300,000 white men who died between 1860 and 1864 in the successful effort to end slavery. You’re welcome.

        • Dear Chris Gibbs, let us get one thing straight, Hispanics look at themselves as whites also, when they put down on paper they say White of Hispanic descent, so check that out. then come back… thank you.

  34. MsPeppa, I don’t usually respond to folk like you, but you’re a special case. It’s obvious by your spelling and grammar that you don’t really have a grasp on too much of anything. I can guess what you do for a living.

  35. to author:

    please post links to bjs where the stats you quoted can be found
    thank you.

  36. I am so tired of hearing and reading articles about what these racist white people feel about Black people. Why do these authors continue to feel the need to tell us what these vagrants say and feel about us. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. What I would like to see happen is for black people to start talking about what is wrong with the white community. Like how even with all the advantages they have, you still have spoiled rich kids blowing up schools and theatres and universities. Of how low their moral fiber is, in that they can’t find people who are not blood relatives to have sexual intercourse with. Like how their women, pray on athletes of ANY RACE to cash in on that $$$$DOLLAR DOLLAR BILL$$$ YALL. And how they spend year after year killing animals just for the sport of it. I could go on and on and on, but I have a day job.

  37. While the article brings out some good points, Blacks commit more crimes per capita than whites. To not see that puts you at an unfair disadvantage. Take a look at introductory level statistics.

    • You’re full of crap! Whites commit crimes too, lots of them and usually against their fellow whites. The white race ain’t as civilized as it pretends to be now is it?

    • @Truthbeliever or what the hell ever your name is, cut the bull. White people commit JUST AS MUCH crime as any other race, they just do not get arrested. Nobody is trying to hear that mud you are trying to sling. This country is racist as hell and the police are the main ones. If polioce arested whites as they should, you’d see how more crimes they commit as opposed to other races. You may fool the dumb black people who hate themselves, but you are not fooling the strong intelligent ones. So kick rocks you neantherthol, nobody wants you here with your poisioning rhetoric.

      • Augustus Pendergast

        MsPeppa, not to put too fine a point on it. But didn’t Reverend Jesse Jackson himself say that he would rather be walked upon in the night by a group of white guys than a group of black guys?

        Actually my question is rhetorical because we both know that he did say that. Basically with that one statement Rev. Jackson shot down the myth that whites commit just as much crime as blacks but don’t get arrested.

        And don’t you think Rev. Jackson thought long and hard before he said what he said? He knew his statement reflected badly on the very people he is seeking, and has sought his entire life, to lift up.

        Jesse Jackson is a man who has spent his life in the trenches fighting for civil rights and human dignity. You disrespect him and call him a liar when you deny the truth about black crime.

        He has the courage to confront issues. To bad some of the people he seeks to lead aren’t made of the same stuff. If they were, if you were MsPeppa, maybe some real progress could be made and we could all live a little safer.

        After the Martin / Zimmerman incident, President Obama said we needed to talk. I would like to take a crack at his suggestion. Give honest communication an honest chance. What do you say MsPeppa?

  38. Comparing the percentages between “types” of crimes versus the actual percentage of crimes is misleading. On the whole, black youths commit more violent crimes in number and per capita. Especially per capita. Most are repeat offenders and receive harsher sentences. Skewing the facts will not validate the argument you present in your article. That said, I do believe blacks are treated unfairly in the court system based on generations of bigotry.

    • This isn’t skewing the facts dearie – she’s dead on. I have also researched the DOJ’s and FBI statistics and her numbers jive. Most of the people who gathered these numbers are white – so what do you have to say to THAT?

      White people just can’t accept it. The scary black male/female is just a bunch of media hype. Who commits more serial killings? Who’s more likely to go on a shooting rampage? Seriously?

      • Well “Dearie”, I didn’t say her numbers were wrong, but they aren’t truly representative of the real criminal stats. By comparing different types of statistics, you are comparing apples to oranges and you don’t have a real comparison. So wrap your ignorant mind around THAT.

  39. I am an unknown writer. This piece I am presenting to you I wrote because I am tired of senseless gun violence ending in death. As a child growing up I did not know what the meaning of hate was. In my opinion hate is a form of total dislike that is communicated from higher influences taught in various ways such as parents teaching their children the wrong ideas. The United States of America is portrayed to be the land of the free, but why are the people of the nation feeling there is no other way to solve issues except for resulting to violence. I believe in our President. He is trying to work as a team player for the sake of the country and not just for his own. I respect him as a man. I would like to read my quote to the President. This would be a legacy my family would be proud of. Could you help me send this to the White House? An author I am not but I believe in me, I believe in my country, the nation is not perfect but we sure a true God that took slaves from slavery and a black man that had a dream to the White House as our President. I don’t have much but I have a dream and a wish to get this poem to the President. Thank you for taking time to read this. But the question is:
    Are We Proud To Be Black?
    There I was listening to a black man screaming as he was hung by his arms and beaten until the white flesh was exposed on his body, and blood pouring profusely. More and more frequently it seems like some black people forget where they come from. Our black brothers and sisters are arguing and killing one another, leaving children without fathers and mothers. I remembered the night they went into a black man’s home forcing him to watch as they raped and beat his wife, within an inch of her life. Her lips were swollen and eyes full of tears, nothing compared to the beatings one endured. Still today, why do we call our beautiful black women “Bitch”? Why do we criticize our women and say we love them only when it serves our purpose? Why do we call each other “nigger, “a cruel useless word? Why do we continue to demeanor each other? Aren’t we proud to be black? I saw slaves working in the fields, so tired until some fainted from heat exhaustion the water they were given tasted bitter and they were never allowed to read or write. Yet, we fight over things that don’t really matter. Are we proud to be black? Praying and meditating with the Lord was the only time our ancestors felt they had freedom. Many nights slaves went to sleep hungry, tired, and beaten. Now we are just slaves to the way things are in society. Even in this day and time, black men and women that are in the most powerful positions will never be seen as equal. We will always be considered beneath some people no matter the status we attain. There are still ignorant people that believe no matter how we, as African American people, have achieved so much, we still have yet to receive recognition for it. The problem is we, as black people, never want to see each other prosper. We should always treat our black brothers and sisters as equals no more or less. Be proud of who you are, a person who is black.
    Written by Rufus Calvin Henderson

  40. Well written and factual based as opposed to opinion. And to the brother that commented on chicago, it has always been a violent city . Why dont you look at the statisitcs during prohibition and Al Capone. Why dont you ask yourself what is at the root of the killings ? 90 percent of the time its related to money and control of it. Black people are not sociopaths that kill people just for the joy of it . If you believe this or buy into the white media hype and propaganda then your part of the problem and not the solution.

    • Wayne,

      You are embarrassing yourself to the real cats out here. No one should be arguing this or even saying this is a good article because it has nothing to do with Black on Black crime. This is just some ivory tower Black intellectual doing tit-for-tat with White pundits.

      What that nonsense got to do with the hood? Nothing. That’s how we all know who are the fake cats coming to this article trying to defend it….

  41. The reasoning behind the issue of “Black on Black” crime is a prime example of Base Rate Fallacy:

  42. Trayvon Martin…. Still dead regardless of this meaningless article…

    The facts combined proved innocence.

  43. You have to be totally dumb in math to not realize she put out BS statistics that are misleading…

    Let’s put it in simple terms…show me a white city or community where 70 people get shot in a weekend..just the whole wide world….

    We have a serious black-on-black issue and trying to “transfer” over and say white people kill more is not a fact, this is a coward posting if I ever saw one.

    I don’t give a crap how much they kill over there, I care about us killing each other and let’s focus on what’s important instead of making up BS stats…go tell someone on the the South Side of Chicago these stats and see how that turns out..

    • She didn’t use BS stats. They are official stats that if the numbers painted a different picture you would agree with but because they don’t suggest, as the suggestion is always made, that crimes committed by Black people are tied to the very fact that we are Black, you call BS. I call BS on your comment. Were all 70 of the people shot in Chicago over a weekend Black? All shot by Black people? Prove it. And lets be real, you’re talking about a densely populated area of impoverished people and anywhere in the world you find high poverty, you find high crime. The bottom line is stop attaching crime to Black just because some Black people commit crimes.

      • In all due respect RAN, you telling me to prove 70 people who got shot over a weekend is Black? How about I personally know at least 20 of them and grew up around my house, homey?

        The majority of crime in our community is “getting back” and it is obviously you have nothing real to do with the Black community and just on a web site running your mouth, homey.

        The fact you would try to respond to my argument with some cornball “intellectual” rationale tells us all you ain’t really someone who needs to be arging with someone like me.

        Next, you don’t know me as you are a lightweight. I’m more likely to see to have this woman Phd revoke for posting this racist, skewed unscientific nonsense faster than you can convince anybody around here they should listen to a lightweight trying to argue this issue “intellectually”…homey..

        • You used “homey” three times in your reply to me. That tells me all I need to know about you and WHO you are. Conversation terminated.

          • And the fact you don’t use the word “homey” tells us you just a cornball sitting behind a computer, dork. Don’t comment on things you don’t know…just a bit of advice..real cats are in the real world…

  44. I agree, there is no significant difference in crime in white and black neighborhoods.

    That’s why we need to eliminate Section 8 programs designed to move blacks into the suburbs. These programs simply move blacks from high crime black urban neighborhoods into high crime white suburban neighborhoods.

    Likewise, we need to eliminate affirmative action programs. After all, whites suffer the same exact community pathos inflicted in black neighborhoods.

    • You do know affirmative action benefits more white women than anyone of color male or female?
      How many white men do you know who complains their wives were unfairly employed?
      I’ll wait…

      • All the more reason to end it…..I guess you’re with me, then.

        • Well played…

        • Nice deflection.
          I can hardly care what people get rid of, because it never really benefited blacks in the first place. A white man with a record is still more likely to get a job then a black man with a degree. Even a white man with just a HS diploma is more likely. Whites have their own affirmative action that is never acknowledged, especially white males. This white AA is also a get out of jail free card, where although more whites are arrested, more blacks are jailed, and for the same crimes.
          Affirmative action only seems to be a problem for people when it comes to blacks specifically, not other minorities or women or other protected classes. Wonder why? Why is it so “unfair” when a black person but complete silence when it benefits white women?
          Honestly, I even hear white women ignorantly mouth of about AA, not knowing they are the primary group benefitting from it.

          • AA is a concept that has outgrown its usefulness.

          • You have a lot of anger over AA. So just get rid of it.

            • You’re not really a professor, are you?
              My argument isn’t against AA, but against bigots who only have a problem with AA only when it comes to blacks. Yet they ignore the “affirmative action” whites have deferred to them when it comes to say, our criminal system, and dozens of other examples.
              Most workplaces don’t use the AA you’re thinking of anymore. They cannot discriminate based on race, gender, religion, etc, at least on paper. A obvious exception would be religious workplace, where they might want someone of their own religion working there, for the most part, this is allowed. Equal Opportunity Empolyer, that is, on paper, in practice one cannot control biases a hiring manager may have. Which is why, like I said, a white man with a record will get a job faster than a black one without one and with a degree.
              Maybe you believe quotas are still legal too? lol
              In universities, they still can use race based/protected class AA and also socio economic status, but the way I see it, students not fit for the school easily get filtered out in a year or two. No one graduates just because AA, they have to actually pass.

              • to say you have no valid points would be a lie.. yes the black race has been discriminated against; undoubtedly but let us look at modern day. being a white man in my 30’s i do not see causation for the whining. i have experienced terrible racism being a poor educated felon having to commute in the innercity.. my response ;nothing.. i do not hear solutions being offered ; i hear whining.. people such as bill o reilly , mr lemon, dr. ben carson are offering solutions. has wellfare and aa helped the black people??? no, every solid contribution to equal rights has been made by republicans.. the liberal agenda continues to enslave the black people until the free market and self empowerment is embraced nothing will change. black children are put on a pedestal in white suburbia; assumed to be athletes treated differently ; the token syndrome a liberal white disease that currently is about the worse level of racism that exists. and for the idiot that said a white felon will get hired before an educated black man?? what?? speaking from experience this is an absolute lie and is quite the opposite from the truth. there are no special arrangement , orginizations for white felons. rather they are about the most discriminated against group in the world. the white man has become a scapegoat and this treend continues and is absurd. try being a white felon; there is no excuses, no reach out and you are shunned by your own people and assumed to be ok by the ignorant.. lets hear solutions people stop deflecting.. my God

  45. Holler if you you are real and if you stand for truth

  46. Whites commit more crimes than all minorities combined.
    Yet it is never seen as a problem of the whole race, just individuals.
    Wonder if I’ll ever hear the phrase “white on white” crime, not likely.

  47. Sophia J. Walters

    Thank you for your article. It presented a balanced view of all facts.

  48. I guess she’s been reading my posts!


  49. Thank you for bringing this information forward, we as a community are often distracted by who is yelling loudest, you present very valid points.